00:40:57 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): Please fill in your full name and company name you're working on. 00:42:33 nahmadkh: Naveed Ahmad Khan (Alstom Group Sweden) 00:44:00 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: Dear all, Once Inside the room, please use the "rename" tool by clicking on your name in the participants' list, and rename as "name surname, company". Thanks! 00:44:00 Jean-Baptiste CHHUOR: Jean-Baptiste CHHUOR Railway Safety Expert - EDFC 00:44:35 François Dégardin,: SNCF 00:50:19 Laurent NICOD/ALSTOM: Is CO2 cost ( 50€/ton and 100€/ton expected on 2030) already included in the rail gas-oil price? If not, it's a brake to further low carbon trains deployment. Any comment? 00:50:39 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: Welcome to all, You will be able to ask questions orally for a few minutes after each presentation, Don't hesitate to take the Opportunity and activate your camera! 00:52:03 Ueli Kramer (SBB): don't forget power-demand and acceleration need… often forgotten but super relevant parameter 00:55:27 Ben: Do we have any data for power demand (as a result of acceleration, but also regen/braking?) 00:58:12 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): Robert, do you have an idea how often a battery need to be replaced during the lifetime of a train? 00:58:56 Antanas Šnirpūnas, RB Rail AS: when the new TSI covering battery powered trains is to be approved? 01:00:43 Jean-Baptiste CHHUOR: Does the Electric Train use the Redundancy Batterie System? 01:02:07 James Craig, Network Rail (UK): A key concern for Network Rail is the potential additional power draw from the existing power network to supply a battery train vs a pure electric train. Our recent experience suggests this can change the business case substantially away from a battery solution once the costs of upgrading the existing electrification are accounted for. 01:03:21 Christophe Heyndrickx (TML): can you unmute me 01:03:22 Ben: @James Craig - what would be an unacceptable power draw? And is this peak/pulse or sustained (say, for 5min+) 01:10:41 Laurent NICOD/ALSTOM: BOMBARDIER is not existing anymore as included in Alstom Group 01:12:00 James Craig, Network Rail (UK): Hello Ben - both peak and sustained are important to consider from a power supply perspective, as well as the impact on the resilience of the system. It depends on the location and application but there are large parts of the UK network where the power supply itself is heavily constrained; of course the train itself can manage power draw but the key point here is that battery trains are often presented as a 'nil cost' from a capital cost perspective but this is not always the case. 01:13:25 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: It would be nice if you could show yourself as "Name Surname, Company", thanks! 01:13:41 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: (Rename option in the participants list) 01:14:46 Ben Ting (Echion Technologies): Thanks James 01:15:12 Robert Davies, Arup: The RSSB studies include feedback for infrastructure fed charging power - a static charge not necessarily higher than an electric train - but charging rate may be restricted as train and power interface is still 01:15:33 Niels Thougård Pedersen (Trailc): Will the presentations be available/distributed afterwards? 01:15:40 Ueli Kramer (SBB): CO2 matters, but who of you (all here in this meeting) has ever made an LCA analysis / comparison of reusing old locs vs. new procurement. steel matters… would be great to get in contact with those who have some experience. when speaking of "reuse" I understand using the old frame and replacing diese-engine, etc. to a fully battery-electric system instead of procuring a new vehicle. 01:17:20 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: Dear all, Presentations and recording will be made available later yes. 01:19:10 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): Hello Ueli, we don't have this LCA, but are making an LCA comparison between diesel, hydrogen, battery and electrification, including trains and infrastructure over a full life cycle. May be need to include refurbishment, but this has not decided yet. 01:21:16 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): I presume we could share the results yes. I'll get in thought when we have completed this. 01:22:19 Robert Davies, Arup: Hi Ueli, Arup is currently re-engineering existing trains in Scotland to take battery / fuel cell; our team have also done similar life extension vs replacement for EMU and shunting locos 01:22:59 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): Ueli, the first LCA's has to be completed end of the month. So quite soon. 01:25:21 James Craig, Network Rail (UK): Thanks for that Christophe - the report and findings are similar to Network Rail's own traction decarbonisation network strategy: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Traction-Decarbonisation-Network-Strategy-Executive-Summary.pdf 01:30:13 Christophe Heyndrickx (TML): Thank you James. I think we also refer to your study in our Belgian study. Very interesting and informative, showing nicely how the different technologies are complementary. 01:31:41 Laurent NICOD/ALSTOM: 2MW, for how many kWh in how many minutes in a BEMU? 01:33:45 Ueli Kramer (SBB): at standstill you can also (if needed, don't forget the grid ;-)) with paralleling systems e.g. 2x pantos or strips 01:35:48 Gerald Olde Monnikhof (ProRail): Paul, for charging during the night at stabling yards, is the limit of 2 MW (or 0,5 MW in the Netherlands) a problem? During the night you have several hours to charge the battery. 01:38:02 Ueli Kramer (SBB): @ SBB we're studying deeply the topic "interaction batterysystems <-> grid" and if interested, come back to us in October and we can show you where we're 01:44:27 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: Or can stay discussing right? 01:49:32 Bart Van der Spiegel (Infrabel): Break of only 2 minutes. 01:49:42 Mr. Kenneth Juul - Lokaltog A/S, Denmark: Have you looked into 25kW (Denmark/Austria) and compared it to 15kW 01:49:44 Bart Van der Spiegel (Infrabel): Back at 11:15. 02:29:21 Rob Schopman (NS): You mention the energy managament system has improved energy efficiency by 5 - 15%. Can you explain compared to what type of train this improvement applies? 02:32:01 Ben Ting (Echion Technologies): Can you give a 'rough' timeline, if you were to try and qualify a new battery technology/cell design for your BEMU? 02:37:04 Philippe Stefanos, UIC: EDLC: Electric Double Layer Capacitors 02:42:45 vulturescu (sncf): which is the maximum range of mireo plus B on batteries, on flat profile ? 02:44:44 vulturescu (sncf): merci ! 03:00:03 Robert Davies, Arup: Benefit of using battery through supercap buffer device ? 03:01:09 Robert Davies, Arup: Philippe - next workshop 2.5 hours schedule ! 03:02:28 Bart Van der Spiegel (Infrabel): On stopping trains, we also have a lot of braking and accelerating. So indeed supercap is interesting possibly in combination with batteries.